George Lincoln Rockwell:The Playboy Interview.part 2
PLAYBOY: Over the nonwhite, non-Christian nations?
ROCKWELL: Over the Afro-Asian bloc, which is to me the ultimate danger the earth faces. Worse than the bomb! These people have something both communism and democracy have lost. They’re fanatics! They’re full of this wild-eyed belief and vitality that the white man has gradually been losing. If they ever unite, there will be almost a billion of them against the white man — a ratio of seven to one. They’re breeding so fast that the odds could easily be ten or fifteen to one before too long. When these billions of primitive colored people are able to control an atom or an H-bomb, as Red China may soon be able to do, we could wipe out a hundred million of them, and there would still be plenty more who kept coming. The white race couldn’t take that kind of a blood letting for long. We’d be wiped out! The huge masses of semi-animal colored people would simply sweep over us, and there’d be nothing we could do about it. It would be the ultimate victory of quantity over quality — unless the white people unite first. We’re in real trouble if they get together first. But make no mistake: There’s going to be a battle of Armageddon, and it’s going to be not between communism and democracy, but between the colored millions of the world and the small but elite corps of white men; ideological, economic and philosophical issues will play little or no part in it. When the time comes — and it’s later than we think — I plan to be ready not only to defend myself, but to lead the millions of whites all over the world who today are foolishly pretending they don’t know what’s going on.
PLAYBOY: Estimates of your nationwide membership range from 25 to 100. Do you propose to lead the white Christian nations with this handful of followers?
ROCKWELL: In the first place, we’re a world movement, just as communism is a world movement rather than a local or national organization. We’ve launched world union of National Socialists, of which I am the international commander. In the second place, you’ve got those figures wrong. In this country alone, we’ve got about 500 storm troopers — that’s men ready for street action — plus about 1500 Party members. Also about 15,000 correspondents — people sympathetic to our cause who write in and donate. And our membership abroad numbers in the thousands.
PLAYBOY: Where abroad?
ROCKWELL: Let me name you countries. Argentina: Horst Eichmann, Adolf Eichmann’s son, is our leader there; he’s either in jail or disappeared, but our movement is growing there. In Australia, our movement is temporarily busted up, but my leader — an American — is running around undercover, trying to get his group back together again. In Spain, we’ve got a pretty good undercover movement, but Franco doesn’t appreciate it, so we have to stay under cover. In England, Colin Jordan is operating wide open — and doing very well. In France, we’ve got a damned good group; they were all arrested just a while back. In Belgium, I’ve got an ex-SS paratrooper in charge, and he’s doing very well. In Sweden, we’ve got a tremendous group; they were all just arrested. In Austria — our guy is in jail, so things are pretty well broken up there. In Canada, John Beattie is leading a tremendous and successful movement. Our leader in Chile is in jail, In Germany, we’ve gone undercover; our leader is going to jail shortly. In Holland, we’re doing fine. In Ireland, they’re coming along fast. In Italy, we’ve got a real tremendous movement. In Japan, one of our guys stabbed the Socialist deputy. Remember? New Zealand is coming along fine. But Norway isn’t doing too good. We’ve a fine group in South Africa now, though, and we’ve got a group in Rhodesia now, too. So you see, we’ve got groups all over the world. They’re still little. But after all, it’s only been 20 years since Hitler died. Twenty years after Christ was crucified, there were almost no Christians. Right now, the followers of the swastika are in the catacombs, like the original followers of the cross were then. I can’t say we’re a Christian movement in the ordinary sense; in fact, I personally am an agnostic. But I deeply believe that there is a power greater than ours that’s helping us in our fight to keep the world natural and racially pure — as opposed to perverted and mongrelized. We’ve got an ideology, a dedication, a belief, a vitality to match the zealotry of the fanatical Asian-African bloc. That’s why we’re going to grow; that’s why-eventually we’re going to prevail.
PLAYBOY: Can you tell us just how you plan to go about fulfilling this destiny with or without divine intervention?
ROCKWELL: I have a four-phase plan. The first phase is to reach the masses; you can do nothing until you’ve reached the masses. In order to reach them without money, without status, without a public platform — you have to be come a dramatic figure. Now in order to achieve that, I’ve had to take a lot of garbage: being called a nut and a monster and everything else. But by hanging up the swastika, I reach the masses. The second phase is to disabuse them of the false picture they have gotten of me, to educate them about what my real program is. The third phase will be to organize the people I’ve educated into a political entity. And the fourth phase will be to use that political entity as a machine to win political power.
That’s the plan. They all overlap, of course. Right now we’re about 50 percent involved in phase two; we’re actually beginning to educate people — in interviews like this one, in speaking engagements at colleges and the like. The other 50 percent is still phase one — just raising hell to keep people aware that there’s such a thing as the American Nazi Party, not caring what they call us, as long as they call us something.
PLAYBOY: What kind of hell-raising?
ROCKWELL: Well, I haven’t done it yet but one of my ambitions is to rent me a plane and skywrite a big smoke swastika and fly over New York City — on Hitler’s birthday. That sort of thing. Or I might get one plane to do the Star of David, and I’ll come in another plane and squat and do brown smoke all over it – on Ben Gurion’s birthday. I’ve checked Federal regulations, and they couldn’t do a thing about it. All I need is the money to do it. But that’s in the future. One of the biggest things we’ve already done to propagandize ourselves is our “Coon-ard Lines Boat Tickets to Africa.” It’s our most popular mail-order item; white high school students order them by the thousands. Would you like me to read you what a ticket entitles one nigger to?
PLAYBOY: Go ahead.
ROCKWELL: Six things. One: a free trip to Africa on a Cadillac-shaped luxury liner, Two: choice cuts of all the bananas and missionaries desired en route, and a free jar of meat tenderizer. NAACP members may sit up front and twist to Martin Luther Coon’s jazz band. Three: a barrel of hair-grease axle grease delicately scented with nigger sweat. Four: a framed picture of Eleanor Roosevelt and Harry Golden. Five: an unguarded chicken coop and watermelon patch on deck, plus fish and chips for breakfast. And six: plenty of wine, marijuana, heroin and other refreshments. And six: On the reverse side, we offer white liberal peace creeps a year’s supply of “Instant Nigger.” It’s described as “Easy-mixing powder! just sprinkle this dingy black dust on any sidewalk, just make water on it, and presto! Hundreds of niggers spring up — little niggers, big niggers, fat niggers, skinny niggers, light niggers, midnight-black niggers, red niggers, even Jew niggers.” It reads here, “Why wait? With this Instant Nigger Powder, any nigger-loving beatnik peace creep can have all the niggers he can stand!” Want one? Compliments of the house.
PLAYBOY: Is mail-order hate literature your main source of income?
ROCKWELL: That, plus initiation fees from new members; plus small donations from those who believe in what we’re trying to do; plus the proceeds from special events like one of our “hate-nannies.”
PLAYBOY: What are they?
ROCKWELL: Big musical jamborees. We hold them on patriotic holidays.
PLAYBOY: Would you give an example of a hate-nanny lyric?
ROCKWELL: Sure. Remember, you asked for it: “Ring that bell, shout for joy … white man’s day is here … Gather all those equals up … Herd them on the pier … America for whites … Africa for blacks … Send those apes back to the trees … Ship those niggers back … Twenty million ugly coons are ready on their pier … America for whites … Africa for blacks … Ring that bell, shout for joy … The white man’s day is here … Hand that chimp his ugly stick … Hand that buck his spear …” That’s just the first part of that song. Do you want to hear more of it?
PLAYBOY: No, we get the general idea.
ROCKWELL: Well, I believe a man ought to hoist up his flag and tell you what he is. And that’s just what we do here.
PLAYBOY: Are there any anti-Jewish ballads in your hate-nanny song bag?
ROCKWELL: Oh, yes! One of our favorites is The Jews Are Through in ’72. It goes to the tune of Mademoiselle from Armentieres. Want to hear it?
PLAYBOY: We’ll listen.
ROCKWELL: “The Jews are through in ’72, parlez-vous … The Jews are through in ’72, parlez-vous … We’ll feed them bacon till they yell … And send them all to kosher hell … Hinky dinky, parlez-vous …” The chorus repeats, and then comes the next verse: “We’ll steal the rabbi’s knife and sheath … And make him do it with his teeth … Hinky dinky, parlez-vous.” The rest of it I don’t remember.
PLAYBOY: The song says the Jews will be “through in ’72.” Is that date significant in some way?
ROCKWELL: 1972 is the year I’m going to be elected President on the National Socialist ticket. Five years of the Johnson Administration will leave the country so torn with racial tensions that some Republican will be a cinch to win in 1968. Then, in 1969, a great economic catastrophe is going to hit this country. PLAYBOY: The nation’s economy has never been healthier than it is today, and most economists predict that the end of the boom is not in sight. ROCKWELL: Nevertheless, there will be an economic catastrophe, though of what nature I’m not sure. It could be an inflation. I say so because all this build-up is based on sand. America’s so-called prosperity is based on debt, war and inflationary money which has no backing and is bound to collapse. Along about 1969, it’s all going to come tumbling down like a house of cards, and the President is going to be blamed for it. In the ensuing economic chaos, plus all the racial warfare, the people will welcome a man who stands unequivocally for the white Christian majority.
PLAYBOY: What makes you think so?
ROCKWELL: As I travel, I find that people everywhere, from the smallest towns to the biggest cities, are looking for what I offer. Most of them won’t agree with me openly, but if you take them aside, ask them privately, they’d probably tell you “Rockwell has the right idea: white Christian people should dominate.” By 1972, with the economy coming apart at the seams, with the niggers pushing, with the Communists agitating, with all of this spiritual emptiness, with all this cowardice and betrayal by our Government, the masses of common, ordinary white people will have had it up to here. They’ll want a real leader in the white House — no more spineless jellyfish, no more oily, two faced demagogues, no more queers in the white House like Walter Jenkins and his friends. They’ll be looking for a white leader with the guts of a Malcolm X, with the guts to stand up and say, “I’m going to completely separate the black and white races and preserve white Christian domination in this country, and I’m going to have the Jew Communists and any other traitors gassed for treason. And if you don’t like it, you know what you can do about it.”
PLAYBOY: Do you seriously think you can be elected on that platform?
ROCKWELL: I know so. Things are going to be so desperate by then that it won’t matter whether I’ve got two horns and a tail; I’ll be swept into office.
PLAYBOY: If you are elected, who from among contemporary public figures would you appoint to your Cabinet?
ROCKWELL: If he were still alive, I’d have General Douglas MacArthur as Secretary of State. For Secretary of Defense, Retired General of the Marine Corps “Chesty” Puller. For Attorney General, J. Edgar Hoover. For Secretary of the Interior, Governor George Wallace of Alabama. Let me think, now, others: Senators William Jenner and Harry Byrd, Charles Lindbergh — and William Buckley; he won’t appreciate that, but I think his brilliance could certainly be valuable.
You’ll have to agree that this is a Cabinet to give nightmares to any Jew alive.
They’d start swimming for Israel even before I was sworn in. But I don’t think there’s a man in that Cabinet who is known as anti-Semitic.
PLAYBOY: How about anti-Negro?
ROCKWELL: Well, I’d prefer to call them pro-white. PLAYBOY: If you had carte-blanche power to do so as the Chief Executive, would you create a dictatorship along the lines of Hitler’s?
ROCKWELL: No, I’d reinstitute the American Constitutional Republic the way it was set up by our authoritarian forefathers — who were, in essence, nothing more than National Socialists just like me.
PLAYBOY: In no way did the Founding Fathers attempt to abridge the democratic right to “liberty and justice for all.” How can you call them Nazis?
ROCKWELL: In the first place, I don’t believe in democracy. In the second place, neither did our white forefathers. I believe, as they did, in a republican authoritarian republic with a limited electorate — just like the one the writers of our Constitution meant this country to be. When these white Christian patriots sat down to write the Declaration of Independence, there were no black citizens for them to worry about. In those days, all the niggers were slaves; but to day, thanks to several misguided amendments, our Constitution provides even the blackest of savages with the same rights as his former white masters.
PLAYBOY: Then you advocate the disenfranchisement of Negroes?
ROCKWELL: And the revocation of their citizenship.
PLAYBOY: And the restoration of slavery?
ROCKWELL: No, we have machines to do their work now. I would simply revoke their citizenship and then offer them the alternatives of either returning to Africa with our generous help and assistance in establishing a modern industrial nation, or being relocated on reservations like the Indians were when they became a problem to the survival of the white people.
This will apply to you, too, by the way.
Nothing personal, you understand; I like you, personally; but I can’t make any exceptions.
PLAYBOY: Of course not. What would you do with America’s 6,000,000 Jews?
ROCKWELL: I think the Jews can be dealt with individually rather than as a group — like the niggers must be because of their race. As I said earlier, I think all Jews — in fact, all those connected in any way with treason, whether Jews or not should be investigated and their cases put before grand juries; if they’re indicted, they should then be tried, and if convicted, they should be killed.
PLAYBOY: Having disposed of Jews and Negroes, would that complete your list of those slotted for removal?
ROCKWELL: Not quite. I’d also purge the queers. I despise them worst of all. They’re one of the ugliest problems of our society, and they must be removed — I don’t know if with gas, or what, just so they don’t poison society. If they insist on being queers, put them on some island, maybe — but certainly not around the rest of society. They’re the ultimate symbol of a decaying civilization.
PLAYBOY: Since you’re concerned about the problem, Commander, would you like to reply to a frequent charge by psychiatrists that the womanless atmosphere of military asceticism and institutionalized hostility that characterize your “hate monastery,” as you’ve called your headquarters here, make it an ideal sanctuary for those with repressed homo sexual tendencies?
ROCKWELL: My reply is that this is the standard Jewish charge. The biggest charger that we are a bunch of homosexuals is Walter Winchell, whose real name is Isadore Israel Lipshitz, or some thing like that. [Winchell's real name is Walter Winchel.-Ed.] He’s always calling me “George Lincoln Ratwell, Queen of the Nazis,” saying I’m a fairy, and so forth. Universally, I have found that the Jews themselves, as Hitler said, are the greatest people in the world for accusing others of their own crimes.
PLAYBOY: You haven’t answered the charge that your Party is a haven for homosexuals.
ROCKWELL: Well, I do think there is a tendency for queers to come here, because to a queer, this place is as tempting as a girls’ school would be to me. Whenever I catch any of them in here, I throw them out; and I have caught quite a few of them in here. We had one case where we had reason to believe that the police would catch two guys in the act. The two of them left here hand in hand. I tried to get them prosecuted. We won’t tolerate that sort of thing.
PLAYBOY: How about heterosexual relations? Are they verboten, too?
ROCKWELL: Absolutely not. Any man who didn’t vigorously enjoy normal sex could never be a National Socialist. One of the best American Nazis I’ve ever known used to use a vulgar expression, “Those who won’t fuck won’t fight.” I wouldn’t put it so crudely myself, but I heartily subscribe to that doctrine. I never knew a good fighting man who didn’t enjoy a lusty sex life.
PLAYBOY: Are any of your men married?
ROCKWELL: A few, but most are either single or divorced, like myself. I believe very strongly in the importance of basic morals to protect civilization, but it’s almost impossible for a guy in this kind of work to have a normal marriage and family; so most of us have no choice but to make other arrangements. And I might add, to paraphrase a French bon mot, vive les arrangements. But I must admit that it’s damn difficult — especially for me — to have any sort of normal contacts with women, since I’m so often approached in this regard for political blackmail.
PLAYBOY: Is it true that you require your Party members to swear an oath against drinking, smoking and cursing?
ROCKWELL: All my officers take an oath against drinking, including myself. Most have also taken an oath against smoking. I, myself, would not smoke except that the corncob pipe I’ve smoked for so long has become sort of a trademark. As for cursing, it’s hard to stop cursing in the rough situations in which we live, just like in the Armed Services; but I do all I can to discourage it.
PLAYBOY: You’ve used swearwords in this interview. Is this setting a good example for your men?
ROCKWELL: Well, I exempt myself from that oath for professional appearances such as this. In talking to you, I’ve used words like “nigger” and “kike” because this is a big interview in a national magazine, and I want to attract attention — to shock people into listening to what I have to say. If I were discussing, say, the favorite word of niggers — “mother-fucker” — I’d say it strictly as a factual observation and to make a point. But in private conversation, neither I nor any of my members ever use that word — or any other foul language.
PLAYBOY: Do you also forbid the use of drugs?
ROCKWELL: Certainly. I’ve had a few guys in here who I think were marijuana smokers, but I’ve thrown them out and turned them in. Addiction to any drug is degenerative mentally as well as physically, and we’re dead serious about our dedication to the heal -thy-body healthy mind philosophy.
PLAYBOY: Is karate or judo instruction part of your training program?
ROCKWELL: Not so much of that. I’ve found that unless you’re a real expert at karate or judo, it doesn’t help you much. Unless you use it instinctively, it’s no use at all. So we concentrate on physical education, boxing and weapons training.
PLAYBOY: What sort of weapons?
ROCKWELL: Rifles and pistols.
PLAYBOY: For what purpose?
ROCKWELL: Self-defense. I believe the white people of America should learn methods of surviving in the event of racial anarchy and general bedlam in this country, which I think is likely.
PLAYBOY: Do you share the belief of the Minutemen in the importance of being prepared for an armed Communist invasion of the U.S. mainland?
ROCKWELL: The Minutemen are kidding themselves. If there is a total Communist take-over, they haven’t got a prayer in the world of surviving it, let alone stopping it — running around in the weeds with a few guns like little boys playing cops and robbers. All they’re doing is giving themselves an emotional catharsis. They’re wasting millions of dollars, and in the process they’re getting a lot of good kids sent to jail for illegal possession of weapons. I think it’s like the Klan. Their aim, insofar as being ready is concerned, I’m for. I’m for the Klan’s principles, ideas and so forth — except the anti Catholicism — but from my point of view, their methods stink!
PLAYBOY: What methods?
ROCKWELL: Their partial terrorism. I feel that terrorism is a valid weapon in guerrilla warfare, or any kind of warfare; and under the circumstances in which our country finds itself, I would favor terrorism if it could be complete — if it would work. A hundred years ago, I’d have been a Klansman with a rope and a gun and the whole business. I’d have really gone all out during the Reconstruction to save the white South. And make no mistake about the terrorism: It did the job. But today, it plays directly into the hands of Martin Luther Coon; it manufactures martyrs for the Northern press, for the liberals, and it doesn’t scare the niggers out of hell-raising anymore.
PLAYBOY: But apart from your belief that racial violence against Negroes has become self-defeating, you have no moral objection to it?
ROCKWELL: None at all. What I object to is wars among white men. This is what we’ve been doing for centuries — fighting among ourselves and wiping each other out. The North versus the South is a perfect example: the biggest bloodletting we’ve had, the cream of the white population wiped out, all because of the niggers. It solved nothing; it really changed nothing — except that a lot of good white kids got killed. I’m agin that! If we have any more wars, I want to fight the Red Chinese or the Jews, or go over to Africa and fight the niggers.
This I can see some point to. As far as violence on an individual basis is concerned, well, when I come to power I plan to have dueling for officers in the Armed Forces. I’ll have two purposes in that: first, to maintain a corps of officers unafraid to face death — not just in case of war; and second, to restore the concept of personal honor. I don’t think going to court and suing somebody is really a deterrent to libelous, vicious talk. But people don’t flap their mouths quite so freely when they’re liable to have to back it up with a gun. Right now dueling isn’t legal, but the moment it is, I would be eager to face Billy James Hargis and Robert “Rabbit” Welch on a field of honor for going around calling me a Communist.
PLAYBOY: Have you considered the possibility that you might be killed in such a confrontation?
ROCKWELL: I’ve not only considered it; I expect it. And I’m ready for it. Being prepared to die is one of the great secrets of living. I know I’m going to go probably in some violent manner; the only question is when and how. But I don’t think that’s going to happen to me until I complete my mission. I know this is irrational, but I believe that I was placed here for a purpose and I think God has something to do with it: Our country needs a leader. So I think I’ll be spared. As Rommel said, “Stand next to me; I’m bulletproof.”
PLAYBOY: Do you think you’re bulletproof, too?
ROCKWELL: Not literally, of course, but I firmly believe that the more arrogant and defiant you are of danger, the safer you are from harm. I think that’s the reason I’ve survived so many times when people have shot at me. If you’re fearless enough, it implants a certain psychology in the guy that’s trying to shoot at you. It’s almost as if he could smell your fearlessness, the way an animal smells fear. But the effect is the opposite: Instead of being emboldened to attack, he’s so unsettled that his hand shakes when he goes to pull the trigger; and this makes it almost impossible for him to hit you. Either that, or he’ll back down entirely.
When I go out in the street and toughs come up threatening to whip me, I look them straight in the eye and say, “Go ahead. Start.” Maybe they could whip me, but so far nobody’s tried.
PLAYBOY: What’s the closest you’ve come to getting killed?
ROCKWELL: The closest, I guess — though I didn’t get hurt — was the time we had scheduled a picket by 14 of us of the movie Exodus in Boston. The other men were in a truck, and I had registered in a nearby hotel as Nathan Ginsburg, where I waited until the scheduled picket time of two P.M. The newspapers and radio estimated that 10,000 or more Jews were packing the streets waiting for us, and my truck full of boys couldn’t get through the crowd. Well, our picket had been the subject of headlines for days, so I couldn’t possibly chicken out at that point. I had to get through the crowd somehow to picket in front of the theater; so I put on an overcoat, went through the crowd quietly, and when I got in front of the theater, I took off the overcoat in the middle of all those Jews and stood there in full-dress uniform. They were shocked into silence for a moment; their jaws dropped. Then some body hollered, “It’s Rockwell! Get him!” And the whole huge mob marched in on me with their clubs and baling hooks. If I hadn’t been rescued by a flying wedge of tough Irish cops, I would certainly have been killed. I was taken into protective custody and put in a cell.
I’ll tell you, I was glad I was out of that; it could have ended horribly. But I had to show my men that I wouldn’t ask them to do anything I wouldn’t do myself.
Another reason I did it is the effect the Nazi uniform has on Jews: It turns them into insane hatemongers — easy to beat, outmaneuver and out think. The most dangerous man on the face of the earth is a rational, carefully planning Jew, but a raging, hate-filled Jew will act foolishly; you can whip him. PLAYBOY: How many times have you been jailed for this kind of agitation, Commander?
ROCKWELL: Up to now, 15 times. But never for very long; two weeks was the longest — that was in New Orleans. We’d gone down there with our “Hate Bus” to make fun of nigger agitators who were calling their bus the “Love Bus.” Without so much as a warrant or any real cause, the Jew-dominated officials of New Orleans had us all thrown in jail on phony charges that were later dropped.
We finally got out by staging a hunger strike; eleven of us went eight days with out a bite. On the fourth day, one of our men began to crack and said he was going to eat, so we had to let him know that if he did, it would be his last meal. He changed his mind.
Another time in Virginia, they put me in jail, and I was facing ten years’ possible imprisonment for “starting a war against the niggers.” You’ve never seen a man act as guilty as the sheriff who arrested me.
PLAYBOY: Guilty about what?
ROCKWELL: He felt he was doing the wrong thing. Here was a fellow white man fighting for the same things he believed in, and he was throwing me in jail. But this town is in the clutches of this Jew who owns two huge department stores and grocery stores there; so the sheriff was acting under leftist political pressure. But that leftist hotbed is a sanctuary of segregationist arch-conservatism compared with Philadelphia. Believe it or not, my men and I were jailed there for picketing a hotel where Gus Hall, the head of the American Communist Party, was speaking. As far as I’m concerned, Philadelphia is the enemy capital. They’ve practically got Jewish flags flying from the flagpoles. In most cities, though, I’ve found that they’re only bluffing when they threaten me with jail. I tell them, “You’d better start arresting, ’cause I’m going to start speaking.” Nine times out of ten they chicken out. They’re used to nonviolent niggers being willing to go to jail — not white supremacists. Well, here’s one white supremacist who ain’t afraid to go to jail. And neither are my men. As a matter of fact, we’ve got at least two or three Party members in jail some where in the United States almost 365 days a year. Every Sunday night we honor them in ceremonies that we hold on the parade grounds in front of this building. We also award special decorations for conspicuous achievement on behalf of the Party and for acts of heroism above and beyond the call of duty.
Our top award is the Order of Adolf Hitler, then the Gold, the Silver and the Bronze awards. The highest award I’ve given yet was the Silver; that was to a man who couldn’t contain himself in Birmingham and belted Martin Luther Coon on the head for calling that nigger Jew Sammy Davis Jr. “… an example of the finest type of American.”
PLAYBOY: You know, of course, that Dr. King is widely respected and admired by the majority of the American public, black and white — while you, a champion of white supremacy, are regarded by most people as a “nut” and a “hatemonger,” abominated by almost everyone — including the John Birch Society.
ROCKWELL: Martin Luther Coon may go on pulling the wool over the public’s eyes for a while longer, but sooner or later they’re going to find him out for what he is — an 18-karat fake, a fraud on the Negro people. When the black revolution comes, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him get it first — from his own people. As for my being a nut, that name has been applied to some of the greatest men the world has ever known, from Christ to the Wright Brothers. I say it’s therefore one of the highest accolades I could be given. My father once told me that his Jewish friends ask him, “How could you spawn such a viper?” Well, I’m proud that Communist Jews think me a viper. As for the threats and the beatings and the investigations and the assassination attempts and all that, when I hung up the Nazi flag, I counted on being jailed and hated and hounded. If I hadn’t been, I’d figure I was a flop. Harassment is par for the course in the embryonic stages of any new movement that’s opposed by the established powers — especially one as revolutionary as mine. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Anti-Defamation League already has a cross built for me, with the nails ready. But I don’t consider myself persecuted. Maturity is to accept the consequences of your own acts. I think it’s a symptom of paranoia to feel that it’s anyone’s fault but your own if you fail to accomplish what you set out to.
PLAYBOY: We read a newspaper interview a few years ago in which you claimed you were being “gagged and slandered by the Jewish press,” sabotaged by a nationwide journalistic conspiracy in your fight to put your case before the nation. When “the Jewish press” wasn’t pretending that you didn’t exist, you said, it was either deliberately misquoting you or doctoring your public statements to remove the sense and retain the shock value — in order to make you sound simple-minded or to portray you as a racist monster. Only this conspiracy of silence and misrepresentation, you claimed, was preventing you from getting your revolutionary message across to the white, gentile masses and rallying them to your flag. To some people, Commander, these might sound like the remarks of a man who’s trying to blame his failures on someone else.
ROCKWELL: You think I’m being paranoid, is that it?
PLAYBOY: Some people might.
ROCKWELL: In the Columbia journalism Review about three months ago, Ben Bagdikian, a frequent writer for the Anti-Defamation League, wrote an article called “The Gentle Suppression” which asked the question, “Is the news quarantine of Rockwell a good thing?” Bagdikian openly reveals that the press maintains as much silence as possible about our activities. So you see, the Jew blackout on us is as real as a hand over my mouth. They know we’re too poor to buy air time or advertising space, so they ban our publications from all channels of distribution, and they refuse to report our activities in the daily press. I could run naked across the White House lawn and they wouldn’t report it. I’m being facetious. But I’m dead serious when I say that the only kind of free speech left in this country is that speech that doesn’t criticize the Jews. If you criticize the Jews, you’re either smeared or silenced. They have that same kind of “free speech” in Cuba, Red China and Russia and every other Communist country: You can say any thing you like as long as it doesn’t criticize the dictator. The Jews are never going to let me reach the people with my message in the American press; they can’t afford to.
PLAYBOY: How do you reconcile that statement with the fact that you’re being interviewed at this moment for a national magazine?
ROCKWELL: I’ve been interviewed, taped and photographed thousands of times for just such presentations as these, but they never appear. The fact that you come here and get this interview doesn’t prove that you’ll print it, or that if you do, you’ll print it straight. After the editors read over the transcript, they’ll decide it’s too hot to handle, and they’ll chicken out rather than risk getting bombed by the Jews and the niggers when it comes out.
PLAYBOY: We’ll take our chances, Commander — if you will.
ROCKWELL: I’ll take any chances to get my message read. But it’s never going to happen. We’ve been kept out of the news too many times before. I’ll bet you a hundred dollars this whole thing has been nothing but a waste of my time, because it’s never going to reach the people who read your magazine.