George Lincoln Rockwell:The Playboy Interview.part one
George Lincoln Rockwell: The Playboy Interview
Daily Stormer July 26, 2014
From Playboy, April 1966:
Interviewer Haley writes:
“I called Rockwell at his Arlington, Virginia, headquarters and relayed PLAYBOY’s request for an exclusive interview. After assuring himself that I wasn’t Jewish, he guardedly agreed. I didn’t tell him I was a Negro. Five days later, as my taxi pulled up in front of Rockwell’s ‘International Headquarters,’ a nine-room white frame house in Arlington (since padlocked by the Internal Revenue Service, which is currently investigating the labyrinth of Nazi financial backing), I noticed a billboard-sized sign on the roof reading: WHITE MAN FIGHT — SMASH THE BLACK REVOLUTION! I couldn’t help wondering what kind of welcome I’d receive when they got a look at my non-Aryan complexion. I didn’t have long to wait,- the khaki-clad duty guard at the door stiffened as I stepped out of the cab and up the front stairs. When I identified myself, he ushered me uncertainly inside and told me to wait nearby in what he called ‘the shrine room,’ a small, black walled chamber dimly lit by flickering red candles and adorned with American and Nazi flags, adjoining portraits of Adolf Hitler and George Washington, and a slightly larger, rather idealized painting of Rockwell himself — a self Portrait. On the table beside my chair sat a crudely bound and printed copy of Rockwell’s self-published autobiography, ‘This Time the World’; I was leafing through it when a pair of uniformed ‘storm troopers’ loomed suddenly in the doorway, gave the Nazi salute and in formed me coolly that Commander Rockwell had ordered them to take me in one of the Party staff cars to his new personal headquarters.
“Fifteen minutes later, with me and my tape recorder in the back and with two chaperons in the front, the car turned into a narrow, tree-lined road, slowed down as it passed a NO TRESPASSING sign (stamped with a skull and crossbones) and a leashed Doberman watchdog, and finally pulled up in front of a white, 16-room farmhouse emblazoned at floor — and second-story levels with four-foot-high red swastikas. About a dozen Nazis stared icily as the guards walked me past them and up the stairs to Rockwell’s door, where a side-armed storm trooper frisked me expertly from head to toe. Within arm’s reach, I noticed, was a wooden rack holding short combat lengths of sawed off iron pipe. Finding me ‘clean,’ the guard ceremoniously opened the door, stepped inside, saluted, said, ‘Sieg heil!’ — echoed brusquely from within — then stood aside and nodded permission for me to come ahead. I did.
“As if for dramatic effect, Rockwell was standing across the room, corncob pipe in hand, beneath a portrait of Adolf Hitler. Warned about my Negritude, he registered no surprise nor did he smile, speak or offer to shake hands. Instead, after surveying me up and down for a long moment, he motioned me peremptorily to a seat, then sat down himself in a nearby easy chair and watched silently while I set up my tape machine. Rockwell already had one of his own, I noticed, spinning on a nearby table. Then, with the burly guard standing at attention about halfway between us, he took out a pearl-handled revolver, placed it pointedly on the arm of his chair, sat back and spoke for the first time: ‘I’m ready if you are.’ Without any further pleasantries, I turned on my machine.”
PLAYBOY: Before we begin, Commander, I wonder if you’d mind telling me why you’re keeping that pistol there at your elbow, and this armed bodyguard between us.
ROCKWELL: Just a precaution. You may not be aware of the fact that I have received literally thousands of threats against my life. Most of them are from cranks, but some of them haven’t been; there are bullet holes all over the out side of this building. Just last week, two gallon jugs of flaming gasoline were flung against the house right under my window. I keep this gun within reach and a guard beside me during interviews because I’ve been attacked too many times to take any chances. I haven’t yet been jumped by an impostor, but it wasn’t long ago that 17 guys claiming to be from a university came here to “interview” me; nothing untoward happened, but we later found out they were armed and planned to tear down the flag, burn the joint and beat me up. Only the fact that we were ready for that kind of rough stuff kept it from happening.
We’ve never yet had to hurt anybody, but only because I think they all know we’re ready to fight anytime. If you’re who you claim to be, you have nothing to fear.
PLAYBOY: I don’t.
ROCKWELL: Good. Just so we both know where we stand, I’d like to make some thing else crystal clear before we begin.
I’m going to be honest and direct with you. You’re here in your professional capacity; I’m here in my professional capacity. While here, you’ll be treated well — but I see you’re a black interviewer.
It’s nothing personal, but I want you to understand that I don’t mix with your kind, and we call your race “niggers.”
PLAYBOY: I’ve been called “nigger” many times, Commander, but this is the first time I’m being paid for it. So you go right ahead. What have you got against us “niggers”?
ROCKWELL: I’ve got nothing against you. I just think you people would be happier back in Africa where you came from. When the pilgrims got pushed around in Europe, they didn’t have any sit-ins or crawl-ins; they got out and went to a wilderness and built a great civilization. PLAYBOY: It was built with the help of Negroes.
ROCKWELL: Help or no, the white people in America simply aren’t going to allow you to mix totally with them, whether you like it or not.
PLAYBOY: The purpose of the civil rights movement is equality of rights and opportunity, Commander — not miscegenation, as you seem to be implying.
ROCKWELL: Equality may be the stated purpose, but race mixing is what it boils down to in practice; and the harder you people push for that, the madder white people are going to get.
PLAYBOY: Do you think you’re entitled to speak for white people?
ROCKWELL: Malcolm X said the same thing I’m saying.
PLAYBOY: He certainly was in no position to speak for white people.
ROCKWELL: Well, I think I am speaking for the majority of whites when I say that race mixing just isn’t going to work. I think, therefore, that we should take the billions of dollars now being wasted on foreign aid to Communist countries which hate us and give that money to our own niggers to build their own civilized nation in Africa.
PLAYBOY: Apart from the fact that Africa is already spoken for territorially by sovereign nations, all but a few of the 20,000,000 Negroes in this country are native-born Americans who have just as much right to remain here as you do, Commander.
ROCKWELL: That’s not my point. When two people prove incompatible in marriage and they can’t live together, they separate; and the mass of average niggers simply don’t “fit” in modern American society. A leopard doesn’t change his spots just because you bring him in from the jungle and try to housebreak him and turn him into a pet. He may learn to sheathe his claws in order to beg a few scraps off the dinner table, and you may teach him to be a beast of burden, but it doesn’t pay to forget that he’ll al ways be what he was born: a wild animal.
PLAYBOY: We’re talking about human beings, not animals.
ROCKWELL: We’re talking about niggers and there’s no doubt in my mind that they’re basically animalistic.
PLAYBOY: In what way?
ROCKWELL: Spiritually. Our white kids are being perverted, like Pavlov’s dogs, by conditioned-reflex training. For instance, every time a white kid is getting a piece of ass, the car radio is blaring nigger bebop. Under such powerful stimuli, it’s not long before a kid begins unconsciously to connect these savage sounds with intense pleasure and thus transfers his natural pleasurable reactions in sex to an unnatural love of the chaotic and animalistic nigger music, which destroys a love of order and real beauty among our kids. This is how you niggers corrupt our white kids — without even laying a dirty hand on them. Not that you wouldn’t like to.
PLAYBOY: It’s sometimes the other way around, Commander.
ROCKWELL: Well, I’ll have to admit one great failing of my own people: The white man is getting too soft. The niggers are forced to do hard manual labor, and as a result, most nigger bucks are healthy animals — rugged and tough, the way nature intended a male to be. When you take a look at how the average, bourgeois white man spends his time, though hunched over a desk, going to the ballet, riding around on his electric lawn mower or squatting on his fur-lined toilet seat you can’t help but observe how soft and squishy a lot of white men allow them selves to become; especially some of the skinny, pasty-faced white peace creeps with their long hair, their fairy-looking clothes and the big yellow stripe up their spineless back. What normal woman would want one of these cruds? Unfortunately, some of our white women, especially in the crazy leftist environment on our college campuses, get carried away by Jewish propaganda into betraying their own instincts by choosing a healthy black buck instead of one of these skinny, pansified white peace creeps who swarm on our college campuses.
PLAYBOY: Are you implying that the Negro male is sexually superior to the white man?
ROCKWELL: Certainly not. The average white workingman, the vast majority of white men, are just as tough and ballsy as any nigger who ever lived. It’s the white intellectuals who have allowed themselves to be degenerate physically, mentally and especially spiritually, until I am forced to admit that a healthy nigger garbage man is certainly superior physically and sexually to a pasty-faced skinny white peace creep.
PLAYBOY: Do you consider Negroes superior to white men in any other way?
ROCKWELL: On the contrary — I consider them inferior to the white man in every other way.
PLAYBOY: That’s a fairly sweeping generalization. Can you document it?
ROCKWELL: When I speak at colleges, they often ask me the same question. I always answer with a question of my own: How do colleges determine the superior and inferior students? By performance, that’s how! Look at history; investigate the different races. The Chinese perform — they’ve created a great civilization. All the white races certainly perform. But the nigger race, until very recently, has done absolutely nothing.
PLAYBOY: How recently?
ROCKWELL: The past 20 or 30 years.
PLAYBOY: What about the contribution of those millions of African Negroes and their descendants — along with that of migrants of every color from all over the world — who helped found and build this country?
ROCKWELL: I don’t dismiss it, but the fact is that any contribution of the niggers has been almost entirely manual and menial. Horses could have done most of it, or well-trained monkeys from the same trees they were flushed out of back in Africa. They’ve picked up a few more tricks since then — but only what they’ve learned from the white man.
PLAYBOY: Recent archaeological findings have documented the existence of advanced black African civilizations centuries before the dawn of comparable cultures in Europe.
ROCKWELL: If they were so far ahead of us then, why are they still shooting blow darts at each other while we’re launching rockets to the moon?
PLAYBOY: The American space program isn’t a segregated project, Commander. There are many Negroes working for NASA and in the space industry.
ROCKWELL: This only proves my point. A few niggers, like trained chimpanzees, have been pushed and jammed into such things as the space program by our race mixing Presidents and the Federal Government; but niggers didn’t originate any of the ideas or develop the fantastic organizations capable of putting men into space. The niggers in NASA are like chimpanzees who have learned to ride bicycles. A few trained monkeys riding bicycles doesn’t prove that chimpanzees could invent or build or even think about a bicycle. The fact is that the average nigger is not as intelligent as the average white man.
PLAYBOY: There’s no genetic or anthropological evidence to substantiate that.
ROCKWELL: I know you’re going to say you can show me thousands of intelligent niggers and stupid white men. I’m well aware that there are exceptions on both sides. All I’m saying is that the average of your people is below the average of my people; and the pure-black ones are even further below us. I have living evidence of this sitting right in front of me.
PLAYBOY: If you mean me, I’m far from pure black — as you can see.
ROCKWELL: That’s just it: You’re an intelligent person; I enjoy talking to you. But, you’re not pure black like your ancestors in the Congo. Now, this may insult you, but we’re not here to throw pansies at each other: There had to be some white people in your background somewhere, or you wouldn’t be brown instead of black. Right?
ROCKWELL: Well, I’m saying that your intelligence comes from the blood of my people. Whenever they trot out some smart nigger and say, “See? Look how brilliant niggers are,” what they usually show you is a part-white man with some nigger blood in him. This doesn’t prove that niggers are great. On the contrary; it proves that white blood can make a part-nigger more intelligent.
PLAYBOY: That’s not proof, Commander. Can you offer any authoritative documentation to support your view?
ROCKWELL: A psychologist named G.O. Ferguson made a definitive study of the connection between the amount of white blood and intelligence in niggers. He tested all the nigger school children in Virginia and proved that the pure black niggers did only about 70 percent as well as the white children. Niggers with one white grandparent did about 75 percent as well as the white children. Niggers with two white grandparents did still better, and niggers with three white grandparents did almost as well as the white kids. Since all of these nigger children shared exactly the same environment as niggers, it’s impossible to claim that environment produced these tremendous changes in performance.
[Ferguson's study, conducted in 1916, we later learned, has since been discredited by every major authority on genetics and anthropology; they call it a pseudoscientific rationale for racism, based on an inadequate and unrepresentative sampling, predicated on erroneous assumptions, and statistically loaded to prove its point.-Ed.]
PLAYBOY: In his book A Profile of the Negro American, the world-famed sociologist T.F. Pettigrew states flatly that the degree of white ancestry does not relate in any way to Negro I.Q. scores. According to Pettigrew, the brightest Negro yet reported — with a tested I.Q. of 200 — had no traceable Caucasian heritage whatever.
ROCKWELL: The fact that you can show me one very black individual who is superior to me doesn’t convince me that the average nigger is superior. The startling fact I see is that the lighter they are, the smarter they are, and the blacker they are, the dumber they are.
PLAYBOY: That’s an opinion, Commander, not a fact. Can you back it up with any concrete evidence?
ROCKWELL: The evidence of lifelong experience. I’ve never met a black nigger I mean a real black one, so black he looks purple — that can talk, and think as, say, you can. When I do, then maybe I’ll change my opinion. All the really black niggers, are either what you call Uncle Toms, or they’re revolutionists, or they just want to loaf, loot and rape.
PLAYBOY: Most sociologists would agree that the vast majority of Negroes — dark skinned or otherwise — don’t fit into any of those categories.
ROCKWELL: Like I said, there are always exceptions — but everybody knows that they prove the rule. Evolution shows that in the long run, if the superior mixes with the inferior, the product is halfway between, and inferior to what you started with in the original superior group — in other words, mongrelized.
PLAYBOY: The words superior and inferior have no meaning to geneticists, Commander — and neither does mongrelization. Every authority in the field has attested that the world’s racial groups are genetically indistinguishable from one another. All men, in other words including hybrids — are created equal.
ROCKWELL: You’re bringing tears to my eyes. Don’t you know that all this equality garbage was started by a Jew anthropologist named Franz Boas from Columbia University? Boas was followed by an other Jew from Columbia named Gene Weltfish. And our present Jew expert preaching equality is another Jew named Ashley Montagu. Any anthropologist who dares to preach the facts known by any farmer in the barnyard that breeds differ in quality are simply not allowed to survive in the universities or in publishing, because he can’t earn a living. You never hear from that side.
But Carleton Putnam has written a wonderful book called Race and Reason, showing that there is plenty of scholarly evidence to back up my contention that the nigger race is inherently inferior to the white race intellectually. [Putnam, a former president of Delta Airlines, has no academic credentials in sociology, anthropology or genetics. Explaining its "Not Recommended" classification for his book -- fully titled Race and Reason: A Yankee View -- Book Review Digest writes: "At no time does the author show himself qualified to speak as a scientist. "-Ed.] This equality garbage is straight Soviet, Lysenkian biology direct from the Communist Lysenko, who preached that by changing the environment you could grow one plant from another plant’s seeds. This is the doctrine that’s destroying our society — cause it’s not true. You can’t grow from corn by changing the environment.
PLAYBOY: You can’t grow wheat from corn by changing anything. In any case, we’re discussing human beings, not foodstuffs.
ROCKWELL: I don’t feel like quibbling. What I’m saying is that I believe the Jews have consciously perverted the study of anthropology and biology and but genetics in order to reach this phoney conclusion — and thus destroy the great white race.
PLAYBOY: What phony conclusion?
ROCKWELL: The totally erroneous notion that heredity has nothing to do with why, for example, the niggers have lower scholastic averages and higher illegitimacy rates than whites.
PLAYBOY: According to geneticists, it doesn’t. In any case, how would acceptance of this notion lead to the destruction of the white race?
ROCKWELL: By deluding people into believing that the nigger is only “underprivileged” rather than inherently inferior; into believing, therefore, that he can be cleaned up and smartened up by letting him eat in our restaurants, study in our schools, move into our neighborhoods. The next inevitable step is to take him into our beds — and this would lead to the mongrelization, and hence the destruction, of the white race.
PLAYBOY: You said that the Jews are behind this plot. Since they’re whites themselves, how would they benefit from their own destruction?
ROCKWELL: They won’t be mingling like the rest of us. They believe they’re too pure to mix; they think they’re “the chosen people” — chosen to rule the world. But the only world they could rule would be a world of inferior beings. And as long as the white man is pure, they cannot succeed. But when the white man permits himself to be mixed with black men, then the Jews can master him.
ROCKWELL: They already run the niggers. Except for the Black Muslims, the Jews run practically all the big civil rights organizations.
PLAYBOY: You’re misinformed, Commander. The key posts in all but one of the major civil rights groups — the NAACP — are held entirely by Negroes.
ROCKWELL: They’re just the front men. The Jews operate behind the scenes, pulling the strings and holding the moneybags.
PLAYBOY: The Jews who belong and contribute to these groups serve strictly in an advisory capacity.
ROCKWELL: You’re misinformed. As I started to say, Jews want to run the white people just the way they run the niggers. Once they get the white people mixed with the black people, the white people will be just as easy to run as the niggers.
ROCKWELL: Because when you mix superior and inferior, like I told you, the product is inferior — halfway between the two. The Jews would be able to outwit and outmaneuver and thus manipulate the mongrelized white man just the way he already does the niggers. That’s what the whole so-called civil rights movement is all about; and they’re just liable to get away with it if the good white Christians of this country don’t wake up and get together before it’s too late to restore the natural order of things.
PLAYBOY: And what’s that?
ROCKWELL: Separation. In nature, all things of a similar being tend to group together. Chimpanzees do not run with baboons; they run with chimpanzees. This is the natural order of people, too. Even in thoroughly integrated colleges, when I visit them, I notice that niggers usually sit and eat at tables with other niggers — even though they don’t have to. And the white people sit with other white people. I think this is the natural tendency, and to attempt to pervert this is to fight nature.
PLAYBOY: You fail to make an important moral and constitutional distinction between choosing to associate with one’s own race and being forced to do so. Left to themselves, some people will mingle and some won’t; and most Americans think this is just the way it ought to be.
ROCKWELL: That’s all very noble sounding; it brings a lump to my throat. But what does it boil down to in practice? Every time your people move into my neighborhood, the white people move out; and often there’s violence — by peaceful, decent white men who never before committed any, but are outraged at the black invasion.
PLAYBOY: That’s an exaggeration, Commander. The record shows that fewer and fewer white people are moving out when Negroes move into white neighborhoods; and the fact is that violence very seldom occurs because of Negro “block-busting.” In most instances, after an initial period of strain, the newcomers are being quietly accepted.
ROCKWELL: I don’t know what neighborhoods you’ve been hanging around in, but my own experience has been that violence and animosity are the rule rather than the exception. And that goes double when one of my guys moves into a place like Watts. Your people don’t just riot; they try to kill him. This is natural. Their instincts are coming out, and they always will. And any effort to override these instincts, or deny they exist, will inevitably be unsuccessful. Nature will prevail.
PLAYBOY: Negro hostility toward Nazis could hardly be offered as proof that integration is unnatural. Nor is anti-Nazi violence confined to Negroes.
ROCKWELL: You’re right — the Jews are even better at it.
PLAYBOY: You’ve been quoted as saying that the Watts, Harlem and Rochester riots, among others, were actually instigated by Jews. Do you have any evidence to substantiate that charge?
ROCKWELL: I didn’t say they started them; I said they engineered them. First of all, they tell the niggers, “You people don’t have to obey the laws you don’t like” just like Martin Luther Coon preaches. If a cop arrests a nigger, it’s “police brutality.” And he’s told he should fight back. Whenever a policeman tries to do his duty, the Jew-oriented niggers have been told to try and take the prisoner away from this brutal cop. The Jews turn him into a psychological bomb — so that when a cop comes along and does his duty it’s just like touching a match to a fuse. Boom — up it goes! Like it did in Watts. Like they do in Harlem.
PLAYBOY: In both the Watts and Harlem riots, the bulk of the property damage was suffered by Jewish-owned stores and businesses. Why would the Jews foment violence that’s bound to result in the destruction of their own property?
ROCKWELL: It just happens that most of the businessmen making money off the niggers in the ghettos are Jews. The big Jews in charge are willing to sacrifice the little Jews just as a general sacrifices some troops to win a war.
PLAYBOY: But what could any Jews possibly win by engineering riots?
ROCKWELL: They’re just natural-born agitators. They just can’t help coming in and getting everybody all stirred up and they’re always the ones to suffer for it. Every time! But they just can’t quit. It’s irrational as hell. With all their liberalism and their preaching about equal rights for niggers, they’ve promoted disorder and chaos that’s eventually going to bury them. The liquor dealers are getting it now. Last summer, all those kike store owners in Watts kept screaming, “Oy! Stop! Listen! We’re your friends! ” — while the coons beat their brains out. And that’s just the beginning, just a sample of things to come. This summer I predict that racial violence even more terrible than Watts will erupt — all because of these two trouble-making inferior races.
PLAYBOY: In judging Negroes “inferior” to whites, you said a while ago that you made this appraisal on the basis of “performance.” Do you find Jews inferior for the same reason?
ROCKWELL: I’ve never accused the Jews of being incapable of performing. As a matter of fact, I think there’s a good chance they’re superior to everybody else in terms of actual mental capabilities. I think the average Jew is probably sharper intellectually than the average gentile, because for years and years he’s had to live by his wits. Consequently, there has evolved a race of Jews who are more agile mentally than the rest of us.
PLAYBOY: In what way do you consider Jews inferior, then?
ROCKWELL: Spiritually. I believe that a human being, in order to be a successful person, in addition to performing — inventing a rocket or something — has got to have something he believes in, some thing more than his own survival, some thing that’s a little bigger than himself. The Jews don’t. They’ve even got a rabbi now who admits he’s an atheist Rabbi Sherwin Wine of Birmingham, Michigan.
PLAYBOY: Perhaps you didn’t know that the current Church movement toward disbelief in God originated among the Protestant clergy. In any case, Rabbi Wine’s convictions are a minority voice and could not in any way be said to represent those of the Jewish faith in general. Most Jews continue to believe in God, as set down in the Torah.
ROCKWELL: Jews talk a lot about God. But actually their god, just like Marx said, is money. Cash! This is where the Jews fail — in their lack of idealism. Most of them are strictly materialists at heart. Wherever the Jews have gone, they’ve moved into a friendly, unsuspecting country and promptly started to glut on its people and resources. They think they’re engaging in business, but actually what they’re doing is eating the country up alive. And when people begin to resent their viciousness and greed, and either kick the Jews out or kill them, they always scream “Persecution!” That’s not persecution. It’s self-defense.
PLAYBOY: Are you implying that Hitler was justified in exterminating 6,000,000 European Jews?
ROCKWELL: I don’t believe for one minute that any 6,000,000 Jews were exterminated by Hitler. It never happened. You want me to prove it to you?
PLAYBOY: Go ahead.
ROCKWELL: We have the figures for the number of Jews in the world in 1939, before World War Two: 15,688,259; and the figures for the number living after World War Two: 18,000,000. Now, if you take the number of Jews for after World War Two — and add the 6,000,000 you say were gassed, you get a total of 24,000,000 — which means that there would have to have been a 50-percent increase in the Jewish population during a period of about five years. Even people as good at sex as the Jews couldn’t possibly reproduce that fast. So you see, the Jews’ own figures convict them as liars!
PLAYBOY: What’s your source for these statistics?
ROCKWELL: The pre-War figures came from the 1947 World Almanac, page 219; and the post-War figures from The New York Times, February 22, 1948, in an article by Hanson Baldwin.
[Subsequent investigation revealed that the World Almanac figure of 15,688,259 is correct as claimed. The post-War figures cited by Hanson Baldwin in The New York Times were in the following context: "In these countries (Palestine and Egypt), the Jews are tied by bonds of religion to the rest of the 15 to 18 million Jews of the world." According to every official source, however, Baldwin's estimates are in error. The figures compiled by the Population Reference Bureau in Washington, D. C., show that the world's Jewish population declined from 16,600,000 to 11,400,000 between 1939 and 1945 -- while European Jewry decreased 6,000,000 during that same period, from 9,700,000 to 3,700,000. -Ed.]
PLAYBOY: Population figures aside, do you deny the validity of documentary photographic evidence showing the gas chambers themselves, and the thousands of bodies piled up in concentration camp trenches?
ROCKWELL: I emphatically deny that there is any valid proof that innocent Jews were systematically murdered by the Nazis. The photographs you’ve seen that have been passed off as pictures of dead Jews have been identified as pictures of the corpses of German civilians — mostly women and children and refugees who were killed in the one-night Allied bombing of Dresden, which slaughtered 350,000 innocent people.
PLAYBOY: By whom have these pictures been so identified?
ROCKWELL: By Matt Koehl, my research chief, who says that you can recognize the buildings in the background of these so-called Nazi atrocity photographs as buildings in Dresden.
PLAYBOY: We don’t accept the findings of your research chief as authoritative.
ROCKWELL: I have conclusive evidence to prove that some of these “documentary” photographs are frauds, pure and simple. In a magazine published by the Jews and sold all over America, they show a bottle supposedly containing soap made by the Germans out of the poor, dead, gassed Jews.
PLAYBOY: What evidence do you have for claiming that it’s fraudulent?
ROCKWELL: Common sense. That soap could have been made out of anything; it could have been melted down from a dozen bars of Lifebuoy. But here’s my ultimate proof of just how utterly ridiculous all the anti-Nazi literature you’ve read really is: an article in Sir magazine, March 1958, on how the Nazis gassed and burned and murdered everybody. It’s by “a former corporal of the SS” as told to an American Army master sergeant who signs himself “Lew Cor.” Well, “Lew Cor” is simply Rockwell spelled backward. I wrote it myself — as a test. I wrote the vilest lies I could think of! And here they all are in print in this magazine. Look at the photographs! These are supposed to be actual shots of Nazi victims mentioned in the article — victims that I invented!
PLAYBOY: Your own willingness to lie about Nazi atrocities doesn’t prove that the Jews have done the same thing, Commander. Do you also dismiss the testimony of hundreds of prison camp survivors who have given eyewitness testimony about Nazi atrocities?
ROCKWELL: I have an affidavit from a Jewish doctor, a prisoner at Auschwitz, who says there were no gas chambers.
PLAYBOY: Do you have that affidavit?
ROCKWELL: I’ll send you a photostat. [It has not arrived.-Ed.] I believe the gas chambers in these concentration camps were built after the War — by Jewish Army officers. We know this for sure: It was mostly Jewish Army officers who went in there to liberate these camps. And it was mostly Jewish Army CIC officers who were in charge of the Nuremberg trials. It was they who tortured innocent Nazis using any kind of vile method they could to cook up phony evidence.
PLAYBOY: Can you prove these charges?
ROCKWELL: I know of several cases where American personnel resigned in disgust at the methods used.
PLAYBOY: That doesn’t prove that torture was used to extract false testimony. In any case, you still haven’t said whether you dismiss eyewitness testimony of Nazi atrocities.
ROCKWELL: Certainly I do. I’ve lost count of the times I’ve been in court, after being assaulted and beaten by gangs of Jews, and seen these same Jews get up on the witness stand, with tears pouring down their faces, and tell how I attacked them! The Jews are the world’s master liars! They are geniuses at it. Why, when a kike is up on a witness stand, he doesn’t even need onions to start the tears pouring.
PLAYBOY: It’s said that you keep a model gas chamber here at your headquarters. Is that true?
ROCKWELL: No, but we have an electric chair at Sing Sing that’s already done a great deed for America in frying the Rosenbergs; and there are hundreds of thousands more Rosenbergs running around America who need frying — or gassing.
PLAYBOY: By “more Rosenbergs,” do you mean more Jews or more Communist spies?
ROCKWELL: More Communist Jews. They’re practically the same thing.
PLAYBOY: Are you saying that many Jews are Communists, or that many Communists are Jewish?
ROCKWELL: I use the term “Communist Jews” in exactly the same sense that I would say “Italian gangsters.” Most Italians are not gangsters, but everybody knows that the Mafia is mostly Italians. Well, my experience is that communism is as Jewish as the Mafia is Italian. It’s a fact that almost all of the convicted spies for communism have been atheist Jews like the Rosenbergs. And international communism was invented by the Jew Karl Marx and has since been led mostly by Jews — like Trotsky.
PLAYBOY: Stalin, Khrushchev, Brezhnev, Kosygin and Mao Tse-tung, among many others, certainly aren’t Jews.
ROCKWELL: The Jews operate nowadays mostly as spies and agitators for the Reds. Mind you, I’m not saying that there aren’t vast numbers of Jews who despise communism.
PLAYBOY: Yet you say there are hundreds of thousands of Jewish Communists in America?
ROCKWELL: Perhaps more.
PLAYBOY: What evidence do you have to back up that figure?
ROCKWELL: Plain statistics. Fourteen of the 16 Americans convicted in U.S. courts of treason as Communist spies have been racial Jews and one of them was a nigger. Of the 21 Communist leaders convicted in judge Medina’s court, 19 were racial Jews. Of the so-called “second-string Politburo” Communist leaders rounded up, more than 90 per cent were racial Jews.
PLAYBOY: The total number of convicted spies who you say are Jewish comes to 33. That’s far from hundreds of thousands.
ROCKWELL: There’s also evidence in black and white. Even in their own publications, the Jews do not hide from the Jewishness of communism. It’s there for anybody to see. For instance, the largest circulation Communist newspaper in America is not The Worker, but a paper published in Yiddish called The Morning Freiheit. Any American can get a copy of this Jewish Communist newspaper and read, in the English portions, the open Communist treason they’re preaching.
PLAYBOY: The views of The Morning Freiheit certainly can’t be said to reflect those of most American Jews, Commander. Can you give a specific example of a pro-Marxist statement by any recognized spokesman for American Jewry?
ROCKWELL: Just one? That’s easy. Let’s take a statement made by Rabbi Stephen Wise; he’s one of the leading spokesmen for American Jewry.
PLAYBOY: He died in 1949.
ROCKWELL: Well, before he died, he wrote, “Some call it communism; I call it Judaism.” That’s a direct quote. I’d say that’s putting it pretty unequivocally, wouldn’t you?
PLAYBOY: Can you produce proof of that statement?
ROCKWELL: Certainly. I’ll send it to you.
[The proof has not arrived, nor was Commander Rockwell able to tell us the name of the publication in which the alleged statement appeared. An official at Manhattan's Hebrew Union College, where Rabbi Wise's entire works are kept in archive, later said that no such statement appears anywhere in the late rabbi's writings. Rabbi Edward Kline, Wise's successor at New York's Free Synagogue, told us further that no such quote appears in any of Wise's speeches; nor could he, as a lifelong foe of communism, said Kline, have been capable of making such a remark. Confronted with this evidence, Rockwell later retracted the allegation.-Ed]
PLAYBOY: Do you have any tangible evidence to substantiate your charges? ROCKWELL: Would you accept evidence based on a statistical sampling?
PLAYBOY: Let’s hear it.
ROCKWELL: Out of the number of Jews that I have known personally, a tremendous proportion — at least 50 percent, maybe as high as 85 or 90 percent — have been pro-Red; either card-carrying Communists or accessories before or after the fact, either openly and knowingly aiding and abetting communism and promoting the Communist overthrow of this Government, or assisting the Communist enemies who are killing Americans, or consciously suppressing legal evidence which would tend to convict such traitors.
PLAYBOY: Your own conjectures about the political sympathies of Jews you’ve known personally, Commander, could hardly be accepted as evidence to support your allegations about them, let alone the “hundreds of thousands” you say are pro-Red. In any case, you say they “need frying-or gassing.” On what grounds?
ROCKWELL: Treason. Everybody — not just Jews — with suspicious records of pro communism, or treasonable Zionism, or any subversive attack on this country or its people, should be investigated and arrested and the evidence placed before a grand jury. If they’re indicted, they should be tried for treason, and if they’re convicted, they should be killed.
ROCKWELL: Well, there are going to be hundreds of thousands of Jewish traitors to execute, don’t forget. I don’t see how you can strap that many people in electric chairs and get the job done before they all die of old age; so it seems to me that mass gas chambers are going to be the only solution for the Communist traitor problem in America.
PLAYBOY: Your suggestion of gas chambers as a “solution for the Communist traitor problem” is reminiscent of the “final solution for the Jewish problem” instituted by the Nazis in Germany. Are you planning to lead another anti-Semitic crusade along the lines laid down by Hitler?
ROCKWELL: The crusade I plan to lead will be much broader in scope than that. In Germany, Hitler produced a local “lab experiment”; he provided me with an ideology in the same way that Marx provided one for Lenin. My task is to turn this ideology into a world movement. And I’ll never be able to accomplish that by preaching pure Aryanism as Hitler did — by glorifying the Nordic Germanic people as a “master race.” There is an easily identifiable master race, however: the white race. You can find it all over the world. This is what I’m fighting for — not Aryanism, but white Christian solidarity. In the long run, I intend to win over the people of Greece, of Germany, of Italy, of England, of Canada, of France, of Spain, of Latin America, of Rhodesia, of South Africa the people of every white Christian country in the world. All the white Christian countries of the earth I would try to mold into one racial, religious, political and military entity. I want them eventually to have hegemony.